Poll: Women assigned to subs

[Venus]

Originally Posted by rmmpe

20 plus hours?
Social actions office?
Should we commission Party Officers as well?

Welcome the the United States of Socialist Republic.

A difficult to read and absolutely ridiculous post by the ignorant.
Deal with it!

Bob Mahon (SS)

I will get to the point, this is going to happen wether the sub community wants it or not unless a submanier becomes CNO . My other point is that it will become a political football with civilian leaders in charge with absolutely no military nor sub experiance dictating to the Sub Community. So for all the officers and chiefs in the Sub communuity get used of dealing with all the Peyton Place crap the surface fleet does with COED crews. These women will be forced upon you and you will have to make it work, if it doesn't it will be kept quiet just like the surface fleet and papered over. Hopefully professionalism will still keep standards high in your community but if Civilian leaders push for unqualified women to be passed to fill numbers and those that stand in the way of this will be replaced. This is all part of a agenda by Flag officers and politicians, this has nothing to do with Duty ,Honor nor Country.

[rmmpe]

Venus,
It would be silly to argue with this statement because it has so much truth in it. A political move by self-serving people without a real grasp of Submarine duty, it is without concern for duty, honor or country.

I am chagrined by this integration concept and truly believe it will negatively impact the service I love so well. There will be difficulties with making integration work on a ship having such intimate living conditions and I just don't understand why anyone would desire to change something that works so well now.

I guess it's a Hope and Change thing. I'm gonna change it and hope it works.

[Venus]

Originally Posted by rmmpe

Venus,
It would be silly to argue with this statement because it has so much truth in it. A political move by self-serving people without a real grasp of Submarine duty, it is without concern for duty, honor or country.

I am chagrined by this integration concept and truly believe it will negatively impact the service I love so well. There will be difficulties with making integration work on a ship having such intimate living conditions and I just don't understand why anyone would desire to change something that works so well now.

I guess it's a Hope and Change thing. I'm gonna change it and hope it works.

Rmmpe,
I feel your pain, even though the most I know about Subs is what I read in Tom Clancy novels and having a Dolphin wearing friend of a Deisel boat Senior Chief who was running a ELF station when I was at K.I.Sawyer AFB. Yes it will a whole new world with females on board, yes there will be alots of challenges ahead for the CC and COB . But on the plus side is it a bear just to pass the screening to get into the sub service, how many females acctually want to go into a sewer pipe for 6 months at a time with sea and death only a foot away ( don't know the hull thickness), are you guys still a all volunteer service or do they still have press gangs roming around Chicago throwing them in Great Lakes. What I heard about the screening and training it will weed out alot of women and men who would have hard time making it on the cruise ship.
Most of the military has gone COED exepct for the snake eating trigger pullers and the country is still going, those women are different from men and what works with male troops doesn't work with female troops. But on the good side the sub will smell a whole lot better.

[MACHINE666]

Women serving on subs will ultimately bring the Navy to its downfall.

Why?

Because the female sailors who claim they don't fart will get caught ripping some of the nastiest gas finally, and won't be able to blame it on the dog or open a window. Inside that sub all that recycled air will mix together and cause a mutiny amongst the dudes. It will be complete chaos!

[DAG48]

Originally Posted by CommunityEditor

Do you agree with Navy leadership’s decision to assign women to submarines?

I agree with the following stipulations.

Since Submarine duty is voluntary, Everyone bunks together, Everyone showers together, if an assault occurs the guilty member is executed, if a false accusation of assault occurs the false accuser is executed, if a member becomes pregnant, both mother and father are held equally accountable, booted from the Navy, and they have to repay all money spent on them for training, meals, salary, and bonuses from the first day they entered the Navy.

As harsh as it sounds, this is called personal accountability, and should not be viewed as demonstrating bias towards either sex. If we are going to do this, then we need to do it right.

[rmmpe]

Submarine Service is still voluntary (I wonder how long it'll take some genius to change that).

Excution?
I assume that remark was made tongue in cheek.
But if not; perhaps conduct can be controlled but what about the normal male/female distractions?
Shall that eventually be a capital offense too? If so, we're going to have a lot of graves to dig.

It's accepted men dress for women and women dress in competition with other women. With all crewmembers dressed alike, that competition will manifest itself somewhere else.

I just don't see any real value in this excercise. I do. however, see the very real possibility of severe damage.

Bob Mahon (SS)

[DAG48]

Nope, the execution comments were sincere.

We are talking about life and death, and the need for a crew to trust one another. If the Navy is really going to follow through on this, drastic action will have to be taken as we cannot simply automate 25% of a sub's male crew positions to make room for females to have privacy, we can't afford to build bigger subs (nor would it be logical given that subs are designed for stealth and/or speed, size being a big part of those equations) and we cannot hope everyone will be on their best behavior and honest about personnel issues just because of a policy change.

Personal accountability, equally applied, is the only way to ensure both sexes play by the rules. Capital Punishment in all forms is the only way to achieve this in short order, and all personnel issues will need to be addressed with this in mind should the Navy wish for this policy to succeed.

By the way, as unfair as this may sound, should a Female Submarine Crew Member wish to become pregnant, she will have to have Command Approval First, because her position will need to be filled in advance, before setting out to sea on a tour. I say unfair, because a Male Crew Member can knock up his ole' lady any time they feel like it as long as she is not on a sub. Boils down to Needs of the Navy over the needs of the member. It is a volunteer force however, so if they don't like the policy, they don't have to join.

[rmmpe]

I can get behind dishonorably discharging them for cause but have difficulty supporting execution.
And I am certainly NOT one of those bleeding hearts against capital punishment.

There is much to this equation and I'd bet good money this forum has seen more thought than was devoted by Mabus, Mullen and Roughead combined. It's certainly seen comments offered by people more "Qualifed" than they.

Bob Mahon (SS)

[DAG48]

Originally Posted by rmmpe

I can get behind dishonorably discharging them for cause but have difficulty supporting execution.
And I am certainly NOT one of those bleeding hearts against capital punishment.

There is much to this equation and I'd bet good money this forum has seen more thought than was devoted by Mabus, Mullen and Roughead combined. It's certainly seen comments offered by people more "Qualifed" than they.

Bob Mahon (SS)

Every situation would be resolved through the Judicial System, up to the Supreme Court if needed. Capital Punishment should not be excluded as it would give the program teeth. Desertion was punishable by death in WWII, yet this rarely happened. Take that punishment away, literally or through lax implementation, and people run to Canada to avoid military duty. I'm just saying if the Navy is going to do this, they need to be sincere and address all the problems head on with discipline in mind to avoid/correct bad behavior.

[rmmpe]

Although I believe it extreme, you bring a thought to this forum that clearly addresses anticipated, but very real, problems. I'm sure the 'Triumvirate' of Mabus, Mullen and Roughead considered many but not all issues that will come about. Much as the Roman 'Triumvirate' was establishing decrees during Rome's decline.

However, I don't believe they've considered all and will leave the hard part of making it work to subordinates. And you can bet failure will result in sacrifice of subordinates.

Any fool in authority can establish an edict when the onus of error or consequence will be irresponsibly passed to another.

Bob Mahon (SS)