Yet another Minot CC bites the dust . . .

[BigT2002]

Agreed that if two Birds are fired, then whoever is putting them in charge should be getting questioned as well. But whatever. I still think it should be a 1-star position at least if there is this many Colonels being fired.

[Modus]

Originally Posted by Smeghead

Shame, Col Westa was a good boss. Not sure how the hell they're going to get any office to take command there now though. Seriously would you risk your career by going there? Wonder what they offered the new CC.

But here's a question. Col Emig was removed after the cruise missiles to Barksdale incident and Col Westa put in his place. Now if Col Westa is also being removed for lack of confidence in his leadership shouldn't someone higher up step down?

Good point.

[ChiefB]

Sounds like General LeMay and BGen "Sundown" Wells need to make a "posthumous" visit to Minot.

I'll bet they are both rolling over in their graves.

ChiefB

[Old AFCC Cat]

Originally Posted by Measure Man

It's becoming far too fashionable to fire commanders in the AF.

Isn't this about the damn truth anymore? OK, so let's look at this logically and apply some common sense here. If you have "lost confidence" in someone, have you given them the feedback specifically that will help them correct their ways, so that they can gain your confidence back? And really, while "Perfection is the Standard", how many people can live up to that? Sounds like a one-mistake force to me.

The Air Force has set a standard where"if you screw up, or your people do, you get canned"...ok...so how many people now are going to step outside their comfort zone to take that difficult job when we have already told them "screw up, get fired"? This is the most ridiculous thing I have seen in my entire career. I am so sick and tired of reading articles about good people being shown the door. When it comes down to brass tacks, if the NAF/CC has "lost confience" in his Wing/CC...what does that say about HIS ability to lead and mentor? After all, last I checked, the NAF is no more than an administrative/ADCON type function...

[BRUWIN]

Originally Posted by mocitytx1

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/20...minot_103009w/

* Col. John W. McDonald at the 43rd Airlift Wing, Pope Air Force Base, N.C., was relieved June 12 after arguing in a store parking lot with the wife of an Army soldier from neighboring Fort Bragg. The incident was witnessed by several people and prompted an Army investigation. After AMC officials reviewed the investigation, McDonald was relieved.

.

First we had to take a harmless video off the internet because it offended some overly senstive Marines. Now we have Army dependent wives to answer to? Seems like we are getting beat down at every opportunity.

[BigT2002]

Originally Posted by BRUWIN

First we had to take a harmless video off the internet because it offended some overly senstive Marines. Now we have Army dependent wives to answer to? Seems like we are getting beat down at every opportunity.

Air Force Can't take a joke about them being flyboys by a 4-star General

Marines Get butthurt because someone says they have tougher PT standards

Army Gets upset because a Dependasaurus argued with a Full Bird Colonel about something

....when is it the Navy's turn lol

[BISSBOSS]

I think we are in danger of loosing focus on the real "Take Away" in these events.

The USAF is enforcing a standard that has been in existence since the days of General Curtis Emerson LeMay and the Strategic Air Command.

The Air Force is not kicking these Wing Commanders out of the service. It is acknowledging that although their experience and leadership IS valued and important - It is not currently up to the standard required to manage and re-invigorate the Nuclear Enterprise.

Take the emotion out of it. All of the "He was a great guy" comments miss the point. This was business. Not personal. Being Wing Commander isn't a popularity contest. It is also not a job attained for reward. Those people sitting in those chairs are chosen to do an insanely complex and difficult job at an operational tempo unheard of in modern times. That's your "vanilla flavored" Wing King job description. A Nuke guy has to do ALL of that and attempt to maintain zero faults. Tall order? Hell yes. Impossible to achieve? We'll find out. Not worth setting that standard (especially with nuclear surety) and fostering that culture? Give me a break!

Oh - And spare me... Can we please can the "One Mistake Air Force" rhetoric... These firings are a result of eventS (plural). Not a single isolated mistake.


-BB-

[BigBISSGuy]

While I understand he may have ben a good guy, there are underlying factors that need to be addressed. Commanders are charged with ensuring the mission accomplishment of the unit, and if the unit is NOT getting it done, then the commander is the recipient of all things---both good and bad. What is missing here is, "Which junior officers and enlisted folks are making this happen?" One of the reasons, and I note again ONE of the reasons, was a lack of culture of excellence. While the commander is accountable for this, there should be some additional firings going with it, especially in the areas where the rubber meets the road--enlisted leadership and junior officer leadership. General Patton once said, "“It is absurd to believe that soldiers who cannot be made to wear the proper uniform can be induced to move forward in battle. Officers who fail to perform their duty by correcting small violations and in enforcing proper conduct are incapable of leading.” Again, I have no knowledge of the individual relieved, but this same quote applies to the front line leaders---the enlisted and commissioned alike. Instead of being frustrated with the Major General who made the decision, I would offer it's the others that let him down that are also culpable in this. In the end, however, the commander is resposnbile.

On an equally important note, I find it odd that people look to justify things by saying "One error Air Force." When it comes to nuclear answers, people need only ask the responsible agency for clarification or guidance. This is easier to do than some make it out, and what I find interesting is that some actually believe there is room for error on this because, well, there isn't. First thing that needs to happen is that individuals need to embody what they do and establish that culture of excellence, and that again is not as hard as some make it out to be if they start weeding out the lower levels that just don't--or won't--or want to---get it. The nuclear enterprise is not the new "cool thing" to get people promoted--it's a lifestyle. The mission doesn't change, and if people aren't willing to accept their responsibilities and get it done, there will be more commanders getting fired while the others in lower levels walk away with their medal, bullets, and promotoions...just my thoughts.

[Combat correspondent]

Originally Posted by BigT2002

Air Force Can't take a joke about them being flyboys by a 4-star General

Marines Get butthurt because someone says they have tougher PT standards

Army Gets upset because a Dependasaurus argued with a Full Bird Colonel about something

....when is it the Navy's turn lol

This is a good point - what have we all become, a bunch of whiney fags? Smeg is rolling in his anger

[takthekak]

Originally Posted by BISSBOSS

I think we are in danger of loosing focus on the real "Take Away" in these events.

The USAF is enforcing a standard that has been in existence since the days of General Curtis Emerson LeMay and the Strategic Air Command.

The Air Force is not kicking these Wing Commanders out of the service. It is acknowledging that although their experience and leadership IS valued and important - It is not currently up to the standard required to manage and re-invigorate the Nuclear Enterprise.

Take the emotion out of it. All of the "He was a great guy" comments miss the point. This was business. Not personal. Being Wing Commander isn't a popularity contest. It is also not a job attained for reward. Those people sitting in those chairs are chosen to do an insanely complex and difficult job at an operational tempo unheard of in modern times. That's your "vanilla flavored" Wing King job description. A Nuke guy has to do ALL of that and attempt to maintain zero faults. Tall order? Hell yes. Impossible to achieve? We'll find out. Not worth setting that standard (especially with nuclear surety) and fostering that culture? Give me a break!

Oh - And spare me... Can we please can the "One Mistake Air Force" rhetoric... These firings are a result of eventS (plural). Not a single isolated mistake.


-BB-

Good points. The only thing i'll add to when you say "it's not a job attained for reward"...
actually there have been many a colonel to go on and make General after commanding here.