Home inspections

[JARHEAD377]

Originally Posted by CommunityEditor

Inspections are a part of life in the Marine Corps. Everything from uniforms to service weapons undergo regular inspections. But,what about Marines' homes? Has your command conducted home inspections at your home either on base or off base? Has someone in your command ever paid you an unannounced home visit to see how you are living?

it's f'n comical how the"Times" asks a BS question like this, fishing for a story, and all you guys go ape shit about how f'd up it would be if the "man" would try to "inspect" your home off base... NO SHIT it would be f'd up, because it would be illegal! ...to "inspect" your private residence off base would require more than just your CO signing some paperwork!

The Times is fishing for a story here... no CO in his right mind would try to authorize a home inspection at a Marines private residence off base that is owned by that Marine... that CO would be an idiot!!

Govt owned housing or the barracks are another story though.

SF

[E4RUMOR]

What if there was a challenge about equal opportunity and treatment among Marines?

Just because I'm a single Marine living in a barracks, I have to be subject to weekly inspections from my chain of command? I pay BAH the same as a married Marine, I just don't see it in my paycheck.

Now let's think about this logically.

Did you know that technically speaking, if a Marine is in or out of his room, whoever wishes to inspect his room is supposed to ask for permission to enter? Did you also know that the Marine can deny that person the right to enter? The only way that a person can enter a Marines room is if the Marine is given foreknowledge of an inspection. An NCO, SNCO, 1st Sgt, Company Gunny DOES NOT have the right to walk into a Marine's room anytime they wish and perform a random inspection. That is a violation of and individual's rights. And I don't care what anyone says, Marines DO have rights.

Any Marine who is married will argue that a Marine that lives in the barracks should be inspected, because it's governement quarters. Order and cleanliness must be maintained. I totally agree with that. However, I also remember the letter coming from the Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps that stated new field day guidlines and how the BEQ should belong to the NCOs lving in that barracks.

But working in the Military Police field, I can give countless examples of on base housing I have entered in which it looked like God poured out His wrath on society. What's even more suprising is that these homes belonged to NCOs, SNCOs. and Officers. And they were in this condition on a night when their Marines were performing field day at the barracks.

It's infuriating to know that a Marine living in the barracks is held to a standard that is far higher than their married counterparts. If you're going to walk in my room and run your hand over a desk and come up with some dust and fail me for that, let me go to your house.. and not your whole house... I'll be fair... let me go to one of your rooms and do the same thing... bet you I will come up with dust.

I haven't been in the Marine Corps as long as a lot of individuals in here. Been in for a little over 6 years. The entire time, I have lived in the barracks. As long as I am in, I have been subject to stupid cleaning games and standards in the barracks. And yes, I did the chinese field day crap. I've always been a firm believer if a single Marine is going to be inspected in the barracks, married Marines be inspected in housing... and the inspection should go all the way up ... even to Staff NCOs... cause like I stated... some of our leaders live in a more disgusting manner than some of our PFCs and LCpls... but they'll fail that PFC or LCpl while their own crib is a disaster zone.. it's hypocritical . On base inspections and barracks inspections... be fair across the board..

-Sgt. Mike

[BecauseISaidSo]

Your COC should not be 'inspecting' homes. However as SNCOS and Senior NCO's we should be stopping by your respective Marines homes (barracks, on base, off base) every once and a while to see how the Marines are living, what their doing etc. on weekends and what not. They can/should even be announced visits (Hey LCpl Smith what are you doign this weekend? Im going to be in that area maybe ill stop by around 4pm and see what your up to?). Youd be suprised how Marines start acting like adults when you treat them like adults.....

[SSgtAllen3381]

You would be surprised to see how they really "live" when you don't let them know you are coming.

[Yggdrasil]

What would be the point of all of this in the first place?

Is it some sort of witch hunt; a search for people to "take down"?

[E4RUMOR]

Originally Posted by SSgtAllen3381

You would be surprised to see how they really "live" when you don't let them know you are coming.

This is my point exactly. The common rule of thumb for a Marine living in the barracks is that trash should bee taken out in the morning before leaving the room, the rack should be made, and the room should be squared away. Why? Because you never know who is going to stop by.

I think my point is that the same principle should apply to Marines living in base housing. How is it that we're gonig to hold a Marine living in the BEQ to higher standards than a Marine living in base housing? One might say because a Marine will be moving into your room after you leave the barracks, but the same philosophy should go for a Marine living in base housing. A new family will move into that house once the Marine living there moves out with his family.

This whole idea could be argued round and round, but the fact of the matter is that alot of Marines living in the barracks have drawn the same conclusion. They see the difference in treatment, and that's why you have a lot of knuckleheads doing stupid crap like getting contract marriages so that they can move out of the barracks and avoid the stupidity and unequal treatement that takes place.

On a whole separate issue:

Take into consideration the living environment of many barracks. There is no heat in the winter and no air conditioning in the summer. Furthermore, the barracks I am currently living in is not even equipped with ceiling fans. Marines go out and buy fans for their rooms or air conditioners. Then, lo and behold, the area Commander informs us that air conditioning units are not authorized, because they require a high energy intake and our barracks is so old it might blow some fuses. So you have Marines that work 14-17 hour days coming back to a room that is like an oven during the winter time (even with a fan) and they are expected to sleep in these conditions. But if I roll through base housing, I see ceiling fans, air conditioners, and ample amount of windows for ventilation.

It's amazing to me how Marines are expected to adapt and overcome in every situation. Because we are Marines, we are expected to suck up rough treatment ( part of our ethos, which makes us appear as badasses that can pretty much put up with anything ). We learn to scoff at the complaints of our fellow servicemembers in other branches of the service, and we chalk it up as trivial and think they are just being pansies. However, in all reality, they have the right idea. There is nothing wrong with expecting favorable and comfortable living conditions when residing in garrison and not on deployment. Considering the fact that we are the Nations Finest Fighting Organization, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a comfortable environment to call home when you consider the amount of work we do and the operational tempo we are subject to.

I have lived in a varitey of bachelor billeting. From squad bays to barracks that have air conditioned rooms and walk-in closets. Some instillations and commands know how to take care of their Marines, while others are just piss poor in their management and care.

[E4RUMOR]

Originally Posted by Combat correspondent

Ummm, No. Not no, hell no! Barracks for single Marines, sure - fair game. But if you are suggesting the chain of command come into an off-base residence where a civilian spouse and children reside and violate their privacy with an "inspection," I'd say that CoC better go see JAG. That, or they can go see a local magistrate and get a search warrant prior to the inspection - that would certainly suffice. But, the off base home is either personally owned or there's a rent agreement and in either case, is not USMC property not does the Corps have the right to enter without a warrant - try to google this word "U.S. Constitution," you may find you learn a lot there

You may be surprised to know that the same rule applies for onbase houseing and barracks rooms as well. No one can just walk into a single Marine's room anytime they wish, nor can anyone just walk into a Marine's home on base anytime they wish.

It's also important to remember that there is a difference between and inspection and a search. The fourth Ammendment guards the rights of an individual against unlawful search and seizure. If there is knowledge given of an inspection beforehand, then the Marine is made aware of the inspection being conducted and the reasons for why it is being conducted. Hence, there is a reason. However, the notice must be given in advance.

An inspection is designed to evaluate living conditions and cleanliness of the Marine's environment. A search is conducted when looking for evidence or something that could incriminate a Marine in an offense. Unfortunately, many commands hide a search under the cover of an inspection.. not realizing that anything found that is incriminating is not admissable as evidence, because their reasons for entering a room or residence is an inspection... not a search. And you're right.. in order to conduct a search, you need a warrant. The only way a warrant is issued is when there is probable cause to conduct a search of a house or barracks room.

[Born Invincible]

I have been in a unit that asked me to inspect the house of one of my Marines. The reason for the inspection was his house was reported to the command by the base housing officials because of the state it was in. I have never heard of a unit sending over personnel to inspect the field day or generally condition of a house on or off base just because. This is kind of a silly thread but the truth remains that the same nasty dirty Marine/Sailor that lived with you in the barracks doesn't change when he gets married. However I don't personally believe that it becomes that individuals leaderships problem when he fails to maintain his living quarters. If he can't keep his house clean he should be warned then evicted on a repeat violation. End of story. If I need to inspect his house then he should be moved into a barracks.

[Yggdrasil]

Originally Posted by Born Invincible

I have been in a unit that asked me to inspect the house of one of my Marines. The reason for the inspection was his house was reported to the command by the base housing officials because of the state it was in. I have never heard of a unit sending over personnel to inspect the field day or generally condition of a house on or off base just because. This is kind of a silly thread but the truth remains that the same nasty dirty Marine/Sailor that lived with you in the barracks doesn't change when he gets married. However I don't personally believe that it becomes that individuals leaderships problem when he fails to maintain his living quarters. If he can't keep his house clean he should be warned then evicted on a repeat violation. End of story. If I need to inspect his house then he should be moved into a barracks.

This makes sense. The only time your command should get involved in your personal life is when your personal life is affecting your performance on the job.

I've lived in base housing before, and can tell you that more often than not, it's the spouse that's the slob. When the house is a pig sty, and the member has been deployed for three months, you know that it's the spouse who has problems. And... of course, the only method to exert control over your spouse will land you in jail and get you a FAP case (not saying that anyone should want to do it, but I added that previous sentence because I knew that someone was going to suggest that someone take greater control of their spouse).

[CplVelociraptor]

Originally Posted by E4RUMOR

It's amazing to me how Marines are expected to adapt and overcome in every situation. Because we are Marines, we are expected to suck up rough treatment ( part of our ethos, which makes us appear as badasses that can pretty much put up with anything ). We learn to scoff at the complaints of our fellow servicemembers in other branches of the service, and we chalk it up as trivial and think they are just being pansies. However, in all reality, they have the right idea. There is nothing wrong with expecting favorable and comfortable living conditions when residing in garrison and not on deployment. Considering the fact that we are the Nations Finest Fighting Organization, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a comfortable environment to call home when you consider the amount of work we do and the operational tempo we are subject to.

I couldn't agree more, Rumor. This attitude of adapt and overcome for every damn thing we do is a bit ridiculous. It leads to a lack of proper maintenance in the barracks, a lack of proper or appropriate amounts of gear in the field, and it even affects the way we go about pretty much everything in the Marine Corps. I'll give an example. I provided a lot of security badges for people here in Iraq, and when it comes to GySgt and below, the SOP was followed. I would've followed that SOP to the T, because I believe in some iota of equality out there in this Corps. My GySgt, however, disagreed. SOP was most definitely not followed for Master/First Sergeants and Sergeants Major/Master Gunnys. It wasn't followed for Company Grade and above either. To me, that's a perfect example of our tendency to do things the simple, easy way, rather than facing a complex issue. It's strange, because in real combat situations, we do the exact opposite. We are the World's Finest, because of our violent, chaotic tactics, that always get the job done. They require a lot of thought, and a lot of input from the entire force.

We need to carry over some of this drive to do well into our barracks, and in to our concern for young Marines' well being. Providing someone with a reasonable place to live is not "babying" them. It is the humane thing to do. The Commanding General may very well deserve all of that fancy mahogony furniture bullshit that they're going to throw in his office, but shit, sir, can I have a tub that takes less than one hour to drain my dirty water? Can I have an A/C and heater that functions as expected?

Camp Pendleton seems to have gotten some new barracks, and LeJeune has some nicer new stuff as well. I could careless about new barracks, I like my room, just fix what's wrong with it, and if you can't, build a new one.