new NCO, new problem

[Buckeye87]

I have been in the marine corps for 3 1/2 years and have never had a weight issue. I've recently been told that I am out of regulations because I "look big". I'll be honest and say that I have never had a "ripped" body but I have always been a large guy. I'm 75 inches and I weigh 211 (within marine corps standards), I have never failed a PFT or a CFT. I noticed I was getting too out of shape about 2 months ago ( I weighed myself out of curioiusity and found that I was 10 lbs over my max weight) and since then I go to the gym 4-5 times a week and run and do cardio 3-4 times a week. Today my Sgt. tells me that I have to start PTing under his supervision while he teaches his MCMAP course. I asked him why and he says "you're fat, you need to do some kind of PT". I explained to him my gym schedule and to prove it I have multiple witnesses who see me in the gym and I also have log entries in the bases gym sign in log. Since I have started this routine I have lost over 10 pounds and I feel much stronger and see more definition in my muscles and have improved my CFT and PFT times. As an NCO I noticed I had a problem, and took the steps to correct it as any NCO would. My Sgt wants me to go to his MCMAP class and pt in green on green while his class is in cammies doing completely different excercises than me and I am the only one doing the excercises. It is embarrassing to have to do this in front of E-3 and below and I feel it will affect my role as an NCO and not only that...it's a pain in the ass to give up my chow (it's the only personal time I get through the week).

I recently start a second job (I have a lot of debt). Which will have me working in my shop 0700-1630 and my second job from 1700-2300. I have been going to the gym at 2330 to prepare myself for this schedule because both are very important commitments for me. I normally sleep from 0000- 0530 and perform my duties without feeling tired. During my chow time (1130-1300) I would normally use this time to run errands such as the bank, post office, legal, or education center ( all of which are not even open before 0700 and close at 1700 or earlier. My question is do you think I'm handling the situation just fine on my own, without the "help" of my Sgt. providing that I have corrected my weight issue? Or is it okay for him to single me out, and order me to continue on "his unoffial BCP program". According to him, there is a new order saying anyone reguardless of height and weight or PFT/CFT scores can be ordered to the BCP program just because my Sgt "thinks" they don't look good in uniform (which after asking my SNCO he said I looked fine in my uniforms). I read the post on here about the order and only a commander can determine if a marine "looks too big"?
Also...when I brought this up to one of my senior corporals, he recomended I request mast because this is hazing. Can I get some advice on this subject please?

[bravohotel43]

Good morning corporal,

MCO 6110.3 has your answers, if you want the full reference.

To sum it up for you, yes, the CO is the only one who can formally put you on BCP, and that's after a 60-day grace period for you to correct it without anything going on your record.

However, it sounds like your sergeant isn't trying to do anything formal, and that's where this gets tricky. If it's not BCP, then it's technically him running PT just for you. That's where it get's tricky. My knowledge on when an NCO can set his own mandatory PT time is rather rough, and as a boot lance coolie I'm sure the rules that apply to me change when they apply to you. Basically, I think if you're not a 1st class everything, he can always take you out per his discretion. However, if he's not taking everyone out then it's a pretty bad double standard. He cannot take you out because of his perception that you are overweight. He can certainly voice his opinion to the CO, but it sounds like your SNCO has your back on that one. If the problem persists corporal, I'm sure you know how to take it up your chain of command.

[Buckeye87]

If the problem persists corporal, I'm sure you know how to take it up your chain of command.

That I do...I just want to get my ducks in a row before I decide whether to go down that road or not.

as a boot lance coolie I'm sure the rules that apply to me change when they apply to you.

Since I've been in I've never heard of there being a difference in Cpl vs LCpl rules being any different for anything. Just as a Cpl you get hit harder for your mistakes because of all the E1-E3 look to us to set an example and it could cause various more problems for the whole unit if we don't set the right one.

I appreciate your feedback though...it's not the first time I've learned something from a newer marine than myself and I'm sure it won't be the last. Thank you.

[THORSHAMMER69]

Buckeye, from the perspective of a senior SNCO, this is a case of hazing. Cut and dry. If your SNCO knew that this Sgt was doing this he'd probably tell him he's a dumbass. No one but the CO can put a Marine on BCP or MAP (Military Appearance Program). The last I knew you're both NCOs. Have some balls and tell him to go **** himself. I say if you brought yourself back into regulation this sgt has nothing to talk about.

[Buckeye87]

When I brought the situation to my SNCO he said "I'll talk to him about it, but you still need to go because he is a Sgt and you are a corporal, you need to obey the order from your NCOIC" And that was the last I heard about it until my Sgt chewed me out for "running to daddy" and that I will receive a counseling for my weight issue and if I think it's bullshit then I can feel free to include that in my comments on the counseling sheet, but he recommends I choose my words wisely.

Do you think I should request mast? Because from the impression I get from requesting mast it seems more likely that I will be "punished" for doing so (by punished I mean work longer hours for my actions, do "pfc work" while pfcs are sitting around telling jokes with the Sgt, maybe even counseled severely on things that are not normally enforced but because he is mad at me they will be enforced upon me)

I appreciate the advice Thorshammer69, but as my MOS picks up slowly and it's expected to be closed out for a while...I don't want to risk my hard earned rank over disrespecting a Sgt. I've experienced many similar situations with the same Sgt. For example a few months ago I was sending a power of attorney to my brother so that he could put my old car in his name so he could insure it and drive it. I chose to give him a general poa so that way he would have no trouble along the way. I asked to go to legal and he asked "what for?" and I explained myself and he asked "you giving him general or special?" I said "general because in ohio my local dmv has given me trouble with specials, and my brother needs to be able to drive that car asap" He told me he recommends a special and that with a general my brother can steal everything from me. I said well...i trust my brother with everything and I know the risks involved, I appreciate the advice, but I think I'd prefer he gets a general anyways in case something else comes up where I might need him to use it" he ordered me outside the building and put me at parade rest telling me I would stay there until I could give him a valid reason why I needed the general as opposed to the special. I told him I didn't think that was any of his business and that I would just go during my chow. He said "who says you're getting a chow...I can tell you to go to the chowhall and bring your food back and eat it here and put you back to work" I said I would just do it on my weekend and get it done out in town. He said "you aren't going to tell me what you're going to do!" and he walked away. I stood there for over a half hour until I think he brought it up to my Gysgt. and from his next move I assume my Gysgt told him he was not allowed to do that because he came back to me and told me I could go to legal with a sour look on his face. This is only a few of the problems I've had...there are many more that I think are against regulation, or at least unprofessional behavior. I was told a long time ago by a Sgt whom I respected by choice (not because of his chevrons) that a wise marine picks his battles...and I feel that by persuing these matters my life in the marine corps will only get worse.

[bravohotel43]

Originally Posted by Buckeye87

Since I've been in I've never heard of there being a difference in Cpl vs LCpl rules being any different for anything. Just as a Cpl you get hit harder for your mistakes because of all the E1-E3 look to us to set an example and it could cause various more problems for the whole unit if we don't set the right one.

I appreciate your feedback though...it's not the first time I've learned something from a newer marine than myself and I'm sure it won't be the last. Thank you.

No problem corporal. I meant that I think you have more recourse to say "I'm an NCO, I can take care of this on my own" then I could if I were in the same situation, not that the rules that applied were different.

[glock]

I think you need to take the advice of THORSHAMMER. Man up and don't take this guys s**t. Yeah, you'll probably feel some reprecussions for it but you'll gain respect from him. It sounds to me like he still views you as a lance, and is treating you as such. It's up to you to change his perception of you. Also, it does sound like hazing, and you need to decide if it's worth pulling that card. Just my .02

[Buckeye87]

Originally Posted by bravohotel43

No problem corporal. I meant that I think you have more recourse to say "I'm an NCO, I can take care of this on my own" then I could if I were in the same situation, not that the rules that applied were different.

Understood and agreed.

[LeaderOfMarines]

If you step back and take it in a different concept, do you think maybe he is just trying to give you extra help so if someone somewhere down the line says oh your fat or what have you and you have been working out with your Sgt, then he can now vouch for you instead of throw you under the bus?

[Buckeye87]

Well, today I just went to his MCMAP class early...starting running around the track (near the MCMAP pit) and just PTed the hell out of myself...did a lap around the track, 25 crunches, 25 burpees, 25 push ups x3 and then max effort on the 4th circuit...when his class got there he stopped walking and just watched me for a moment. After about 30 minutes he motioned for me to come to him so I sprinted over there pretty worn out at this point and he smiled and said, "That's awesome...I see some slobber on your shirt and you look like you're really putting out...go get some chow and get back to the shop" So I don't think I'm going to bring any more attention than I already have to the matter. I guess my attitude towards him was all the difference...I figure if I just keep doing his program and reguardless of how I feel just get out there and show him that I don't need his help then eventually he'll step back and leave me alone.