CSM Lacks Combat Badge

[SSGArtillery]

hey heres what seems to work for some of these "war dodgers" *because thats what it really is believe it or not*... Go Recruiting *2-3 years*, then go to Tradoc and become an instructor *1-2 yrs*, then pcs to Korea and extend *2 years* then pick up for DS duty *3 years* and if you want to, go back to korea again *2 years* thats a good 12 years max of hidin out... like I said it seems to work for a lot of these senior NCOs.

As far as the Army not giving people the "chance" to go, thats total Bull, if you really wanted to serve your country you couldnt find a Re-up NCO that wouldnt satisfy your need to deploy, it's outrageous to think that you can't volunteer to serve in a Forscom unit and do your time and relieve the burden on some guys that are off on their 4th or 5th combat deployment. I mean, 9 years of war and not one single deployment? get out of here.. Im just saying thats all.

[FatCat40]

I find it as insulting for a CSM not to have a combat patch as I did for President Clinton to speak at the Vietnam Memorial. How in the world can you look person in the eye and expect to command respect from them while training/ordering them to do what you ACTIVELY avoided? And I don't care what anyone says, there's not one person in this military whom after what...almost 8 yrs of war WANTS to deploy and just by coincidence hasn't. I don't believe it. I know too many Sr. NCOs who;ve thus far, successgfully, actively dodged deployment while I along with plenty others have been deployed 3-4 times almost back to back. But......what're you gona do, respect the rank if not necessarily the person?

[KingOfBattle]

I assure you that there are, very few, NCOs out there who have yet to deploy, who have not yet had the opportunity. I am talking about the ones who have just been misplaced by the system while many others have deployed over and over again and have been sitting on the sidelines wanting to go downrange but have yet to be afforded the opportunity. Now there are those who dodge deployment like the plague. You have seen them, I have seen them. Some of these dodgers have been downrange once and have no intentions of going for a second tour. I myself have not deployed yet (will in next 12 months finally). I did not have any say so in any of my assignments since 911. I was in a TRADOC unit during 911 and was inadvertently stop lossed at that unit. Two years later the stop loss was lifted and I came down DA selected for recruiting duty. I re-enlisted during my second year of recruiting to hopefully get back in the fight and chose Fort Bliss, 1st AD. Once I got to Fort Bliss, I was assigned to a test and evaluation unit (TRADOC). Now who has ever heard of a 1st AD TRADOC unit? I was "W" coded in this unit for 3 more years. I made several attempts of getting the "W" code lifted by a 4187 that was consistantly denied by the COC. Now I finally made it to a FORSCOM unit and will finally get a chance to deploy. But make no mistake about it, the deployments do not make great leaders, great leaders are willing to deploy. I have met an alarming amount of NCOs who have multiple deployments who couldn't lead a cat out of a wet paper bag. Alot of these combat vets can't pass a PT test, are overweight (over fat), can't write a counseling to save their life, don't lead from the front, late to work, and generally don't set the example for their suboordinates. Now there are alot of combat vets who are genuine leaders too, don't get me wrong. I am just glad that we can now hold these substandard NCOs feet to the fire and finally get the ones who just don't give a damn their walking papers. I just wonder if I am going to have the chip on my shoulder once I get back from downrange that I see alot of the posters on this forum; that if you don't have a combat patch, you can't tell me nothing?

[MCGYVER]

If you don't have a combat patch you can tell me lots of things, just nothing about combat.

[SSGArtillery]

i dont mean to be negative or come off as such, but the main thing you were saying that "the ncos cant pass a pt test and lead soldiers that come back from combat" well if you deployed with them you would really understand the reasons why they cant do it sometimes. or they dont lead soldiers to the standard that you were taught in tradoc, which trust me, leading soldiers in combat is waayyyy different than the BS they try to teach you in garrison. And they cant counsel? well its not that easy to pick up a printer in combat all the time, its a different world. You will understand why these combat soldiers act the way they act and perform the way they perform in garrison when you go to combat, if they cant march soldiers its because you dont see many formations being held in the urban settings of iraq or afghanistan. Its not always easy to come back from war in outstanding shape and lead soldiers IAW with the garrison regulations, you need to get that garrison mind frame out of your head learn to change with your environment while deployed and not assume that an enemy encounter is going to attack you IAW with the training youve had.
Good luck in your upcoming deployment, and come back safe.

[MCGYVER]

I notice the latest edition of Army Times has two letters to the editor defending the "high speed" CSM but none to the contrary. Sounds a bit fishy to me. You mean to tell me that they didn't get a single letter saying anything negative about the lack of experience the CSM brings to the table? Not buying it.

[SSGArtillery]

its funny how they spoke highly of her, and the fact that she had a career path she was goin for, must be nice to be able to follow up on your career path and not worrying about the deployment side of the army. Its these people that get put on these high positions and treat combat vets like theyre worthless because they didnt have the luxury of doing all the stateside schools and time to build their own career professionally (I.e. try korea for an awesome example). they get rewarded for not serving their country by being allowed to hide out and be in charge of combat soldiers. I could care less about gender, but for a person that's the first female drill sgt in charge you'd think you would set the example by having served a tour AT LEAST! in the last 8 years...

[MCGYVER]

Fully concur. Reminds me of a former 1SG I had that didn't think anyone without a Drill Sergeant badge could teach him anything or was worth talking to. Most of my buddies that went drill said it was easy duty and extra cash. Yet for a while there you couldn't make E-7 without a badge. Disgusting, just disgusting.

[Creaminess]

Originally Posted by MCGYVER

I notice the latest edition of Army Times has two letters to the editor defending the "high speed" CSM but none to the contrary. Sounds a bit fishy to me. You mean to tell me that they didn't get a single letter saying anything negative about the lack of experience the CSM brings to the table? Not buying it.

I'm overseas, so I always get my Army Times a week or so behind the states, but I'm expecting to see somebody blast the NCO who wrote the letter originally for speaking his mind. I'm sure it will be something to the effect that we shouldn't "undermine" our leaders or the usual gibberish. Personally, I appreciate that the NCO who wrote that first letter had the guts to do it, and I can guarantee that HE has a patch and at least one deployment.

Just because you make CSM does NOT make you immune to criticism, especially when it's warranted. There is not one single person who can tell me that this CSM's branch "didn't let her deploy." That is total BS, and anybody who would state otherwise is full of it. I would be embarrassed to be a senior NCO, especially in such a high profile position (made even moreso by being the first female to hold that position), and not have a single deployment in almost 30 years of service. Not only no combat deployments, but she has no operational deployments either. Yet I see it daily where I am, and it disgusts me. It's not because I have to deploy and they don't, because personally I often would rather be deployed than at home station. It's because they KNOW they are skating and they're not ashamed to admit it.

[smarg]

Originally Posted by cobra6

Just like that clown who is the CSM of the Army...thinks that he is above everything...he should be run out of the Army on a rail...instead of dealing with real issues in the Army he is more interested in changing the Army Blues into a version of a mall security guard uniform.....I have very little faith in alot of the CSMs I see now in the Army....they are afraid to enforce standards...it makes me sick.

**YAY, CLAP CLAP CLAP**

Most of the CSMs in the Army are slimy careerists enjoying their perks granted unto them as enlisted 'generals'...staff cars, butt boys, secretaries. They want to make me vomit.

Thank you for your honest input.